Bryce
Welcome back to another episode of the Lendr blog. I’m really excited today because we have a special guest, Mr. Matt. Thanks so much for being here. So, I have to say, this feels like a full-circle moment for me. Our relationship has changed so much over the last 3 or 4 years. We went from borrowing money from you to now being lenders ourselves. You’ve been a mentor to me in a lot of ways, so it’s really exciting to pick your brain from this new perspective, rather than as a borrower.
Matt
I love it. It’s been awesome seeing your progression and the way you’ve transitioned, getting more into lending.
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Bryce
I wish you had told me three years ago to just focus on lending! It’s so much better than owning rentals and all that. It just makes so much more sense.
Matt
Well, you know, maybe we’ll touch on this, but there’s always a progression. Sometimes you have to go through those steps to figure out what you really enjoy. Buying those rentals gave you good equity over the past few years, which might not have come as quickly in lending.
Bryce
For sure. And I tell people all the time that while we did very well, that doesn’t necessarily mean we were great investors. We just got into real estate at a good time. The market kept going up, and as you’ve seen, even with borrowers, they could be horrible operators but hold onto a property for a few extra months, and suddenly it’s worth $15,000 more than they expected.
Matt
Oh, 100%. Even owning real estate for a long time, even if you’re not great at it but have good financing, can lead to a great return. I met with a borrower at his house once, and as he was finishing up his remodel, his plumber, who didn’t look like he was doing too well, said he had made a lot of money by just holding onto properties. He had bought a 15-plex or 20-plex years ago and just hung onto them. Where else could you make that kind of money without doing much else?
Bryce
For real. Yeah, not possible.
Matt
So, your point is, if you finance it and just hang on in a good market, it will definitely create a lot of value. If you’re in a metro area in the U.S. over a good time period, it’ll likely appreciate.
Bryce
Oh my gosh. Yeah. It’s crazy. We’re lucky. There’s no way we would’ve been able to do what we did otherwise. We did well by getting in at the right time and eventually cashed out everything. Now, our equity is between $1.5 and $1.8 million. This has been reinvested into lending, along with additional capital we raised. I’ve definitely seen the light. I’ve got a couple of properties I’ve kept, but for me, my personality doesn’t want to deal with rentals anymore. I’m done. It’s a way to build wealth, and we did well, but like you said, there’s a natural progression that people go through—rentals, flipping, and then into lending. We’re just past that stage now.
Matt
That’s great. There’s a time and place for everything. You can’t really go wrong with a strategy of buying single-family homes and holding them forever. That will make you money. But at some point, you need to consider what’s best for your time, resources, and skills. Lending has been a good way for us to maximize our money. That said, owning rentals is still an active pursuit, so there are many ways to win.
Bryce
And everyone talks about passive income, right? I used to strive for that, but honestly, I don’t believe in it anymore. The only thing I can think of as truly passive is maybe dividends from stocks. Otherwise, there’s always some component of work involved. The longer I’ve been in my entrepreneurial journey, the more I’ve realized I’ve fallen in love with the work itself. Some days, like on a Saturday when we don’t have anything planned, I find myself twiddling my thumbs and my wife will just say, “Go work. It’s fine.” I’ve learned to enjoy it.
Matt
Yeah, it’s a trap, but a good one. I’ve thought about it before, like when I’m watching the Utah football game. Sometimes I wonder if there’s anything I like more than lending and football. For three months of the year, I can be completely distracted by postseason football. But otherwise, like you, I’ll start tinkering with how we can get more efficient or raise more money. That’s what I enjoy now. It’s fun, and it means you never really need to retire. Even if you did, I agree with you—maybe if you have a big CD or dividend stocks, that’s as passive as it gets. But you’d still need a huge balance to support your lifestyle. And then what do you do? Golf every day? Maybe, but you’ve still got to have a purpose.
Bryce
Exactly. And for someone like Elon Musk, when he bought Twitter, people said, “He’s one of the richest people on the planet, he doesn’t need more money.” But I guarantee that when he had to cash out some Tesla stock and go to banks to borrow, he probably thought, “Man, if I had more money, I wouldn’t need to go through all these deals.” Even billionaires still work. It’s not about money—it’s the journey. They love the process, not the destination.
Matt
Yep, absolutely. Some of them might have an addiction to work, though. Just like people get addicted to drugs, some get addicted to work.
Bryce
Yeah, definitely a workaholic.
Matt
And there’s another conversation there, like, when you’re that focused on work, other areas of your life can get out of balance. But for driven people, that’s how progress happens, even if it looks a little crazy. Think of something like the iPhone—it revolutionized so many industries because of one crazy idea. Or Tesla, or any major breakthrough—it often comes from those who are willing to go all-in. But you also need people who are content with a 9-to-5, and that’s great, too. It takes all kinds.
…it often comes from those who are willing to go all-in. But you also need people who are content with a 9-to-5, and that’s great, too. It takes all kinds.
Bryce
I’m really resonating with that now. Being an entrepreneur isn’t for everyone. My mom is the definition of a 9-to-5 employee. In our society, we sometimes look down on that, like everyone should start a business. But she’s amazing at what she does. So dedicated, so loyal. I admire that, but it drives me crazy because I can’t stand being in one place for too long. She’s even tried running businesses, but she gets stuck on the basics, like setting up a website. Meanwhile, I come up with a new business idea and have a website and logo ready in no time. Some people just aren’t built for it, and that’s totally okay.
Matt
Yeah, exactly. We’re all wired differently. I was talking with someone about this recently—there’s about 10-15% of people with that entrepreneurial drive, that “I’m going to do it my way” mentality. Then there are those like your mom who find joy in being amazing at their job. You need both. The world wouldn’t work if everyone was an entrepreneur, just like it wouldn’t work if everyone was a worker bee. Some people need to create, others need to execute—and that’s what makes it all work.
Bryce
Yeah, okay, let’s transition into that because obviously this is the lender podcast, so we talk about lending. I know more about you than the audience does, so give us your background. I want to hear everything from the very beginning to where you are now and how you transitioned into lending.
Matt
Cool. Yeah, I’ll try to paint the picture, but I’ll keep it brief. So, I’m 48, and I’ve been doing this as my income for about 20 years. When I graduated from the U, I didn’t really know what I wanted to do. I got a degree in finance because numbers always made sense to me. Once I learned how to use a financial calculator, I was hooked—always messing with Excel spreadsheets, calculating the future value of numbers at different interest rates. I remember my dad taught me the Rule of 72—how if you get 10%, your money doubles in about seven years. That stuck with me forever.
I got a job selling group health insurance, working for an entrepreneur who, even now, is one of my main trusted investors and partners on deals. We made enough money to buy our first house, and even though I was flipping distressed homes, I knew I couldn’t fix one myself. I probably still can’t! So we went to a model home, and I asked if they offered a discount without an agent. They said no, but they pay a realtor, so I got my license to get the commission. I ended up using that commission to get into our first house for almost nothing.
That’s how I got into real estate. I worked for that builder for four years, but after a while, I realized it wasn’t very stimulating. The builder’s marketing was so strong that people just walked in and said, “I want that.” It was good money, but it wasn’t fulfilling. Then, a buddy from high school who was already flipping bank-owned properties here in Salt Lake asked me to do a few flips in 2004. That was when I really got hooked.
For the first few years, we were just figuring it out. The internet wasn’t as big then, so we read books and kind of struggled along. It’s not that hard to buy low, rehab, and sell, but we did a lot of volume. Over time, we started raising money from private investors, because we couldn’t get funding from banks. We found some hard money lenders, and about 12 years ago, I really dove into hard money lending. Fast forward, I have four buckets: hard money lending (the biggest), flips and rehabs, developments, and rentals. I also run a brokerage, but that’s mainly to facilitate my own deals.
Hard money lending is definitely the focus, but the flips and rehabs are more passive now because I have a team in place. Rentals can be passive too, once you get everything set up. But yeah, that’s the quick history. I’ve mostly worked here in Utah but occasionally do loans in places like Idaho.
Bryce
Which I definitely want to touch on more. But I’ve always been curious why you still flip properties. Here’s my lightbulb moment: around COVID, we were flipping a house. The numbers were great, but when COVID hit, we faced supply shortages, delays, and just about everything went wrong. When we finally cashed out, I remember looking at the settlement statement. I think we made like $1,200, but my hard money lender made $25,000 and didn’t lose any sleep over it. That’s when I realized—I need to look more into this lending thing. My lender didn’t do anything, and he made 25 times what I did. That was the catalyst for me. So, I’m curious why you still choose to flip when you don’t have to.
Matt
Yeah, there are a few reasons. First, it’s what I started doing. I did a lot of it, and you get good at it with practice. Over time, it becomes easier. I built out a team and systems, so it’s less work for me now. It’s fun to see the transformation—taking a rundown property and turning it into something beautiful. There’s satisfaction in that process.
It’s fun to see the transformation—taking a rundown property and turning it into something beautiful. There’s satisfaction in that process.
Can it be frustrating? Absolutely. I’ve probably lost money on about 10% of the flips I’ve done. If I’ve done 450, that means I’ve probably lost on about 45, some minimal, some larger, like a $180,000 loss. But on the flip side, I currently have a development project that we’re going to lose about $1 million on. It’s crazy—bad timing. So sometimes I ask myself, “Why am I still doing this?”
Bryce
That’s my question!
Matt
Do you know how hard it would be to lose $1 million in hard money lending? It’s nearly impossible unless you do something crazy.
Bryce
Yeah, exactly. The way we structure deals makes it nearly impossible to lose that much.
Matt
Right. The other reason I flip is it helps me stay relevant and up to date with the process—the costs, the construction, what vendors are charging, how long things take. I’m always in the trenches. It benefits my lending business because I know exactly what’s going on. If a borrower messes up or can’t finish a project, I’ve got a team in place that can step in and help. My team has even listed properties for my borrowers when they’ve needed help.
I wouldn’t be able to do that if I wasn’t still flipping. It’s a backup for the lending side. Plus, sometimes I get deals that come to me a little easier because I’m still flipping. I’ll get calls from borrowers asking if I want to take over a deal. It’s also a good way to build relationships. I have a group in Southern California that I’ve done about 20 flips with. I might not make as much as I would if I did it myself, but I get to leverage their money and my crew. It’s a win-win for both sides, and it opens up opportunities for other deals, like lending.
But honestly, I just love the process. I love seeing the transformation—the before and after. I also stay up to date with market trends and what buyers are looking for. And it’s a great backup plan. If a borrower can’t get a project done, I’ve got the experience to help them out.
Bryce
I totally get that. It’s fun, it’s exciting, and it keeps you sharp.
Matt
Exactly. It can get a little repetitive, but I find a lot of joy in it. You do enough flips in the valley, and it’s cool to see, “I own that one, that one, and that one.” My old assistant even pins the completed flips on Google Maps. It’s fun to track the profits and see where they all are. It also gives you a good sense of where distressed properties are located in the area.
Bryce
That’s a good point.
Matt
Yeah, you can’t miss the older neighborhoods, especially the ones in more affluent areas. In those neighborhoods, it’s often an estate sale, not financial distress. It’s the newer neighborhoods that can be tricky, where there’s more financial distress.
So, that’s why I still flip. I probably will do it forever. It’s a cool process, even if it’s tough sometimes. What I don’t like as much are developments. To me, they’re agonizing. Getting all the permits and zoning issues sorted out is a hassle. Once it gets going, it’s a lot like a flip and is a lot more fun. But I prefer quick decision-making, which is why flips and lending work well for me.
Bryce
And there’s no right or wrong answer. If a really good deal came across my desk, like the nine-plex we bought for $150,000, I’d probably flip it too. It was in terrible condition, but deals like that still come up. The other nice thing about lending is that it opens doors. You now have access to capital, which you might not have as a flipper, where you’re always hunting down funding. Being in the lending space just makes things more versatile.
Matt
I agree. You don’t really decide to become a hard money lender. You either start in traditional banking or real estate and get frustrated with the traditional loan products, or you go the rental and flip route first. I don’t think you could just jump into lending without that background. You have to know property values, title companies, the paperwork—it all ties together. You have to go through all those aspects of a transaction to understand the risks and opportunities.
If you haven’t flipped yourself, you don’t fully understand the nuances. When a borrower takes longer to finish a project, you get it because you’ve made the same mistakes. You also know the market doesn’t care how pretty the property is or how much time you spent picking out the tile. The market just wants the best deal. I think I sometimes have too much empathy for my borrowers because I’ve been in their shoes, struggling to get the funds or dealing with title issues. That experience really helps me as a lender. Without it, you might miss the human side of lending. You can’t just rely on documents—you have to understand the person and their situation.
You can’t just rely on documents—you have to understand the person and their situation.
Bryce
Which brings us to the borrower side of things. I really appreciate you being lenient with us. We bought that triplex from you—I’m sure you remember. Everything was on track, and then interest rates shot up. Suddenly, we were stuck. It took us about 14 months to get out of that project. It was a big rehab, probably around $150,000 in renovations. But with rates jumping to 8%, no one was buying. My exit strategy was to sell, but the market wasn’t cooperating. So, thanks for being patient with us—I didn’t have another way out.
Matt
Well, when you’re a responsible borrower, I know I can trust you to get it done, even if it’s not ideal. You were highly invested, smart, resourceful, and capable. Plus, it’s in Idaho, where the market may be slower, but I’m not going to drop the hammer on you. Why would I set myself up for failure? Now, if you didn’t have any money into the deal and weren’t committed, that’s different. But you’re a good borrower, and my loan’s still solid. Even if the market’s slow, I’d still get paid back, even if you had to sell it for $100k less. By being patient with you, I’m helping myself, too. If I just went by the book—12 months, foreclosure—I’d get a property I didn’t want, half-finished, and a borrower I’ll never work with again. We’d both lose. As private lenders, we have more flexibility than hedge funds or institutional lenders, who are bound by complex systems. They can’t afford to be as patient because of their covenants and controls, and they’d probably blow up deals that don’t need to be.
Bryce
Yeah, I remember asking you once about selling notes on the secondary market. You basically said you’re not interested because that would mean handing the loans over to a third-party servicer, losing that personal touch and flexibility. When you do that, it’s all about the paperwork, and if the note says it’s due in 12 months, they start the foreclosure process at month 13. It’s just a different vibe. Your business thrives on repeat borrowers. If you start foreclosing, that borrower’s probably never coming back. You mentioned how borrowers with a history of successful deals are different. One deal that goes south isn’t a deal-breaker.
Matt
Right, exactly. There’s a sweet spot in this business, and I’ve found mine. My business has been great, but I know I can’t go too big. If I had $100 million out, the way I make decisions would change. I wouldn’t be able to stay on top of every deal the way I do now. That means more people, more controls, and stricter underwriting. So, there’s a balance. Some people might advise me to scale up, but I’m comfortable with where I’m at. I’d rather keep it manageable, with just me and the title company handling most things.
I don’t need a massive team—what I value most are good referrals, repeat borrowers, and the ability to stay flexible. However, I never compromise on value. Rule number one is always to protect the investor’s money. If the deal’s bad, if the borrower isn’t performing, you have to foreclose and move on. I’ve had to do that a few times. But flexibility works as long as the value’s there. The market’s tough right now, so I have more issue loans, but it’s still a small percentage of the total. The value’s not the issue—it’s the extra time, the conversations, the patience.
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Bryce
Right, you have to be more involved now. Back in 2020 and 2021, it was easy—just churning out loans left and right.
Matt
Yeah, I was like, “Did I even send you that payoff letter?” Haha.
Bryce
Yeah, I get that. So, tell me more about how you structure your business. You’ve mentioned you have about $50 million out—how many loans is that, how many investors, how quickly are you turning these loans? What’s your average loan length?
Matt
Yeah, so I typically set up each loan with a six-month term. The way I structure it is pretty simple—I let the interest accrue, so the borrower pays it all back at the end. The average payoff time is about eight months, but the longest I’ve let a loan run was four years. That was a fix-and-flip, and the value was still there. I’ve worked with this borrower before, and he just got stuck. We worked it out. On average, I have around 100-110 loans out at a time. I don’t collect monthly payments, so I don’t need a servicing arm or a complicated system to manage payments.
On average, I have around 100-110 loans out at a time. I don’t collect monthly payments, so I don’t need a servicing arm or a complicated system to manage payments.
I focus on getting good down payments, ensuring there’s solid value in the deal, and avoiding complexity. Behind the scenes, it’s pretty simple. I structure deals with my investors where they don’t get interest until the loan pays off, so I don’t need to do ACH deposits. Some investors don’t like this—they prefer monthly payments—but it works for my model. Bigger investors tend to get balloon payments once or twice a month because there are enough deals in the pipeline.
I don’t have a fund per se. It might look like one from the outside, but each loan is tied to one investor, so there’s no pooling of funds. For example, if I have an investor with $100,000 to invest, I’ll find deals for them to fund—maybe $25,000 in each of four properties. That way, they know exactly where their money is. It’s a more manual process, but it allows me to have a personal touch with each investor. They get to know me, and I get to know them. Plus, they often help me by spotting things I might have missed. It’s a nice two-way street. If one deal goes south, I only have to deal with one person, not multiple investors.
Bryce
Yeah, I’ve pretty much copied your model. Everyone I talk to thinks I’m crazy for not collecting monthly payments, but I like it the way you do it. I don’t have to worry about ACH payments or complicated accounting. Every time a loan pays off, I just disburse it to the investors, and they’re happy. We have a fund setup, but I still track each investor’s position individually. It’s like how you do it. The only difference is we pool the funds together. I carve up the total into chunks, and when a loan pays off, the investor gets paid accordingly. It’s the same basic model—investors still get regular payouts, just not monthly.
Matt
Exactly, and it gives you more liquidity. Some of my investors prefer regular payouts, so when loans pay off, they’ll ask for the money to be sent back so they can deploy it elsewhere. Having a fund would make it easier to deploy capital, but it also comes with pressure. If I had $4 million sitting in a fund, I’d feel obligated to deploy it quickly, which might lead to making some bad loans. I like that, with my model, there’s more of a check-and-balance system. I can’t just say “yes” to every deal because I don’t always have the capital.
Sometimes I know I can’t do a deal, and it forces me to be more strategic. If I had an unlimited checkbook, I’d probably make some bad calls just because I had the money. There’s a lot of value in not always having access to more funds than you need. It keeps you disciplined.
Bryce
I get that. So, what’s your worst problem loan? Any deal where you had to foreclose or take the property back?
Matt
Well, let me give you an example. A lot of problem loans come from bad luck. Sometimes life just happens—like when a borrower dies mid-flip. That’s happened to me. Or you get situations where a borrower’s behavior changes due to personal issues, like divorce or addiction. I’ve had people get arrested, steal money, or just lose interest in the project. One case I remember was a pretty heavy rehab in Salt Lake. It needed structural work, engineering, permitting—a $200,000 remodel. The borrower was new but had done a couple deals. They tried to scale up too quickly, trying to take on three projects at once. In hindsight, I never should have approved that, but we had the money, and they seemed motivated.
They ended up partnering with a first-time investor who had inherited a million dollars from his mom. This guy didn’t know how to protect himself, so he ended up lending the money for the rehab. What happened was the borrower used the money for personal expenses—vacations, lifestyle stuff—instead of rehabbing the property. There was just enough work to make it look like something was happening, but it was a mess. The investor lost all his money and tried to sue everyone—me, the borrower, everyone. But his case was weak.
In the end, we won, but it took a year. The guy lost his mother’s money, attorney fees, and all. It was a mess. But my loan still had value because I structured it right. Even with the accrued interest, the loan still had enough equity. I ended up selling the property to another investor and getting paid back in full.
Bryce
So, no work was done on the property at all?
Matt
Pretty much. They did just enough to make it look like work was being done, but really, they just took the money and used it for personal expenses. But if you’re lending at a good value, at the end of the day, our backstop to get our money back is the property. It has nothing to do with the story, the investor, or the contractors involved in the deal. If you have good value, you’ll be able to recover your money as the lender. You have to remember this—going back to your example, where some people say you’re crazy not to take payments—I’d say you’re crazy to take payments if you don’t understand the value of the property.
Bryce
If you’re doing 100% financing…
Matt
Yeah, exactly. Who cares? Require payments, charge 20%. But if you’re at 100% of the property’s value, you’re toast. You’re toast.
Bryce
One thing I do kind of like—and I don’t think it’s enough to change my model—is that people say that when payments stop coming in, it’s like a pre-warning sign that something’s going on, and you should probably get on top of it before it becomes a bigger issue. I think that’s probably one advantage I’m missing, but that can also come from just increasing communication.
Matt
I was going to say, that ultimately helps you solve the problem better. There’s been so many times where, it’s not like I’m playing a game with the borrower, but if I wasn’t constantly in communication—which is just my personality—I wouldn’t know what was going on. I’m not the type to yell or get aggressive. I mean, yeah, I get mad sometimes, but I’m much more…
…if I wasn’t constantly in communication—which is just my personality—I wouldn’t know what was going on.
Bryce
Just over Utah football, right?
Matt
Yeah, exactly. I’m the guy in high school who was always on the edge, wearing running shoes. I’d be like, “Okay, I’ll fight or flight, but I’m out of there.”
Bryce
Fight or flight—you’re out of there.
Matt
Yeah, yeah, but I’ll cheer on my buddy like, “Fight!” In the meantime, you know? But I’m not stepping in to get aggressive and prove a point. Of course, if the capital’s at risk, you’ve got to make quicker decisions to recover your money. But if you’re communicating with the borrower, you’ll know too—because if they stop calling you back, that’s the same as not sending in a payment.
Bryce
When they’re dodging your phone calls.
Matt
Exactly. When they don’t call you back, or they respond with something really vague, like, “Yeah, I get it, you’re busy, bro, I’m busy too.” What have you been doing for five weeks? Why haven’t you called me back?
Bryce
You just need a simple text, like, “How’s it going?”
Matt
Yeah, exactly. So, just by watching people’s behavior, you can tell. In some ways, a payment might mask the situation—it could be worse than it looks because they’re just making a payment even though they’re not doing anything on the house. You need a system to follow up. We talked earlier about social media—it’s a love-hate thing, but it has helped me a ton. It’s great for keeping an eye on borrowers. If they’re posting pictures of a four-week trip to Cabo, or always posting about their deals, I don’t need an update because I see it.
So, there are creative ways to figure out when you really need to worry about something. I also have an assistant who checks weekly for any property listings. If I see value has been created, I don’t need to worry about that borrower too much. In that case, I can focus on, say, ten loans that need a weekly check-in or a drive-by. You get into a rhythm of being more efficient and spotting signs that tell you when a loan needs more attention—whether or not a payment has been missed.
Bryce
That’s a really good point.
Matt
Yeah, human behavior—if you’re paying attention, you’ll know quickly.
Bryce
Oh yeah. People are embarrassed. They don’t want to admit things aren’t going well.
Matt
I think having a good relationship with your borrowers is really important. It can put you in an awkward situation sometimes. I’ve got a couple of borrowers right now who I’ve known for years and genuinely like. But when I notice a default, I’m thinking, “I get it—life happens, and I want to help.” But on the other hand, I’m like, “You owe me money, and I’m foreclosing on your property.” It’s a weird dynamic. But over the years, I’ve gotten a lot of cooperation from borrowers to do things they might not have done otherwise.
Sometimes, it would be so much easier if they just deeded the property back to me. That way, there’s no adversarial relationship—sometimes, it’s just better to cut your losses. It also helps to know enough about the deal to contact the second lien holders. I can ask them, “Are you going to take less to make this work, or do I need to foreclose?” It can be exhausting, maintaining these relationships and communications, but ultimately, it saves you.
That’s why I’m not able to do that if I have two to three times the loan volume. It might sound attractive to make three times the money, but I’m like, “You know what? I might have three times the income, but I’ll also have ten times the problems.” Is that what I really want? I still feel like what I have is manageable, and over time, saying “no” helps you say “yes” to the right people. And then, everything just flows so much smoother.
Bryce
It’s like butter—everything just goes up smoothly. Which leads into another question. So, when you’re charging a set of points and your fees, like you said, with your spreadsheets, you can easily project what you’re going to make each year. You can reverse-engineer it pretty simply. But in business, everyone’s always pushing for scale—bigger and better. Theoretically, you can’t scale without either bringing in more capital or charging higher fees. How do you combat that, or do you combat it? Or is it just, “This is a nice lifestyle business, and it runs on autopilot, makes good money, and that’s it”? How do you balance that, or do you at all?
Matt
Yeah, I think it’s progress. When we started with a few hundred thousand, I obviously wanted to scale. Then it actually got a little better during COVID, when we grew to $75 million. I thought, “Wow, that’s a lot.” The industry changed, but we were fortunate—more loans paid off than we were putting out because people got a little gun-shy. It balanced out.
So, right now, I think I’m in the latter camp. I don’t want to say stagnant, but I do want to progress and grow. So, now it’s about the small ball: how can I make my lending more efficient? How can I improve the onboarding process? This is where we started talking about software. I feel like I’m growing by improving systems and processes, becoming more efficient behind the scenes. I don’t really want to grow much more on the risk side of lending. To your point, the only way to scale is by raising prices. If that’s your game, good for you. If I could find investors who’d accept half the return they want, I’d make twice as much money without doing anything extra. But I don’t think I can raise prices, because then it’s harder for borrowers to get out of deals. So, if raising prices and getting better rates on my capital doesn’t work, I still need to find a way to make it interesting. How can I reach people in a different way?
Maybe that’s why I still flip and develop properties—because you get more efficiency and more time. What I really should do is just take more time off. You get programmed to stay busy, but I know in a couple of years, things will look different and it’ll be easier. Maybe there’s a different model where I want to grow more, but for now, it’s about lifestyle. What risk do I want to take? The reward is out there, regardless. I’m not trying to be the best lender in America. I’m just focused on my little niche, and I think the progression could look like what one of my investors is doing. He’s in a ton of deals but stays as passive as possible. He also mentors people. I’d love to get to a point where I can do that—invest my money, mentor others, and watch them succeed. I really enjoy that part, learning from others and giving back what I’ve learned. So yeah, it’s lifestyle for me. Things are great. I’ve got awesome relationships with investors, and it’s exciting every day. Sometimes it’s annoying, but there’s always a problem to solve, whether big or small. Maybe that’s the fun part.
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Bryce
Yeah, that’s a great answer. I see a lot of people who think growth is everything, and if you’re not growing, what’s the point? But you reach a point where you ask, why are we growing just for the sake of growth? Of course, you want to push yourself and have goals, but if all your needs are met and everything’s going well, then being content in that place is perfectly fine too.
Matt
Exactly. It’s about being present and enjoying life. You hear a lot about balance, but I don’t think there’s real balance in life. To me, balance is about learning to adapt to everything, rolling with the punches, and enjoying the ride. Like, here we are on a beautiful Saturday, having this conversation. I know there’s work to do, but sometimes, you just need to enjoy the moment, even if it’s a problem-solving moment. We were talking with your wife earlier about fitness, eating, and diet—there’s always opposition in life, but you’ve got to enjoy the process. The complexities of lending are enough to keep you on your toes. There’s always something that goes off script, but that’s okay. The key is how you handle it and fix it.
There’s always something that goes off script, but that’s okay. The key is how you handle it and fix it.
Bryce
But that’s true in any business. Whether you’re flipping or lending, there’s always something.
Matt
Yeah, and there’s always someone else who’s pushing harder, trying to solve a bigger problem. Like, even though we’re all entrepreneurs, I’m not trying to get to Mars.
Bryce
I’m not trying to get to Mars.
Matt
Exactly. I’m just trying to close deals, make money, and have a good life. That’s enough for me.
Bryce
That’s amazing, and that’s probably a great way to end the podcast. It’s a great reminder to focus on being present, having a good life, running a sustainable business, staying healthy and fit—what more can you ask for?
Matt
Yeah, and one more thing. The formula I’ve found for success, and I think it applies to all areas of life, is being proactive. I’ve made plenty of bad decisions over the years, but the more proactive you can be in solving current problems and preparing for the unknowns, the easier it is to handle those unexpected issues. If you’re always reactive, things get overwhelming. A quick example: As an investor, I’ve learned that even though it’s annoying, if all my financials are up to date—tax returns, P&Ls, reconciled accounts—it makes everything easier. It’s so much easier to do the next deal, refinance, or make decisions when everything is organized. If I’m always scrambling to catch up, other problems keep coming at me, and that’s when things feel overwhelming.
Bryce
Yeah, your house is in order.
Matt
Exactly. If you can keep your house in order, whether it’s financial, personal, or even relationships—it’s hard to do, but if you stay on top of it, it becomes routine. And then, when a new problem pops up, you’re able to handle it much easier, without the added stress of scrambling to catch up on other things, like taxes or paperwork.
Bryce
That’s right. Everything’s not on fire, and it makes everything so much easier.
Matt
Exactly. There will be enough fires coming your way, so you might as well avoid starting your own.
Bryce
Yeah, that’s a great way to put it. I love it. Well, Matt, seriously, thank you. This has been amazing. It’s been a great hour chatting with you. For anyone listening who wants to reach out, what’s the best way to contact you? Your website, social media, email?
Matt
Yeah, my website, sierrawestfunding.com, has all my contact info. You can also find me on Instagram at “m.b.strong,” where I post videos and content about how to improve in this space. My email and phone number are on there too.
Bryce
Okay, great. And for anyone reading, if you’re in the lending space and looking to improve your business or learn more, we’ve got episodes coming out every week with guests talking about lending, business, and more. Thanks again, Matt, for being here!
Matt
Thanks, Bryce!
Contact Matt!
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(801) 810-4663
[email protected]
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