Running a $25M Lending Portfolio with Owen Dashner of Liquid Lending Solutions

​​Bryce: We are talking with Owen Daschner from Liquid Lending Solutions. Owen and I met on a random thread on Reddit, and since then we’ve hopped on a couple of different calls. He’s taught me lots of things and given me plenty of tips and tricks. So, I just have to say, Owen is the best. I’m very excited to talk with him, and hopefully, he can impart some wisdom just like he has for me.

Owen: It’s been interesting exploring the world of Reddit, and this has been a cool outcome of engaging in social media. It’s been fun getting to know you a little bit. I’ll try to keep this high-level at first, but I started out in real estate investing in 2005. I was working a W2 job in corporate recruiting and HR. By the time I left that to go full-time into real estate, I had been in it for about 20 years. I slowly started getting more and more burned out with my job satisfaction (or lack thereof) and just wanted something more.

Real estate fascinated me. I loved the idea of creating time and financial freedom through basically side hustling and turning it into a legitimate business. In 2005, I bought my first flip.

When I first started out, I was trying to figure out all the dozens of ways to approach real estate investing. I knew one thing: I didn’t have much money. I also knew I wanted to get to a point where I had enough cash flow—either from real estate or businesses—so I could afford to walk away from my six-figure-a-year job. And again, I’m old—this was several years ago when $100,000 a year was a lot more money than it is now. It seems like everybody needs to make a hundred thousand dollars just to afford an apartment anymore.

I started that process: flipped a house, bought a rental, flipped another house, bought another rental, and so on. I kind of rinsed and repeated. So, buy, rehab, rent, refinance, repeat. That led to accumulating a portfolio of small single-family rentals.

At this time, I was still self-managing those properties. I had a pretty stressful job, a lot of hours, and new children on the way, so there was a lot going on in the background.

Eventually, I started getting into bigger properties and I dipped my toe into the multifamily space in about 2014 and ended up buying whenever I could afford it. I would buy a little larger stuff and just start accumulating small multifamily assets.

Over time, that portfolio grew, and as market values increased with inflation, I was able to harvest some equity and reinvest it into larger deals. I had a couple of properties where I got a decent chunk of money from equity. At that point, I was thinking, “I don’t really have anything to do with this right now. I don’t have a property that I can plug this into or 1031 exchange it into something else.”

I was talking to my flipping business partner, Brandon, and we both thought, “Hey, what about hard money?” I had heard a lot of people could do very well in that space, with good interest and returns. We knew real estate, so it seemed like it might be a good fit. So, we started exploring that in 2018.

“Hey, what about hard money?” I had heard a lot of people could do very well in that space, with good interest and returns.

Brandon and I began looking into hard money lending, but we heard two or three fast no’s from banks we were working with on our real estate operations. They basically said no because they didn’t understand how they could get security on the loans we were making to others. They didn’t know how to collateralize the debt. So, we kind of put a pin in that idea of starting a hard money lending operation.

Fast forward to the beginning of 2020. I had a good friend, now business partner, with whom I had been in several real estate deals. His name is Colin Schwartz. One day, I called him and asked what he was doing for lunch. He mentioned he was about to go to a meeting but said I could come if I wanted. I asked him what the meeting was about, and he said it was about hard money.

That meeting went really well. He was meeting with one guy who ended up being one of our business partners. I then called my business partner in our flipping business. He reached out to his other partners, and we ended up starting with five of us. We had the idea of lending, so each of us pitched in.

We split the ownership 100% for the number of shares: Brandon and I each took 25%, and the other three partners split the remaining 50%. $1,000,000 is what we started with and it was our own money. That’s kind of how the origin story goes.

Bryce: First and foremost, going all the way back, it sounds like you bought a flip first rather than following the natural progression that most people take. Usually, people start with rentals, then move on to flips, and eventually get into some development. That’s the common trajectory for newcomers in real estate, but it sounds like you dove right into flips before even buying rentals. I’m curious if that was intentional and part of your thought process.

Owen: You’re a lot younger than I am, so I want to timestamp this for you: Facebook didn’t exist, and I don’t even think YouTube was around. If it was, it was just in its infancy. Literally, all I had to go off of were books. There was no BiggerPockets or any of the easily digestible content available online now. I was thumbing through paperbacks published in like 1965. I was learning everything I could from those books and was thinking about what I wanted, but I didn’t really know the path to get there. So, I read a lot of books, and I didn’t understand what the “BRRRR” method was. The BRRRR method stands for Buy, Rehab, Rent, Refinance, Repeat—a term coined by Brandon Turner on BiggerPockets. I did some of that, but I didn’t know there was a name for it.

Along the way, I also flipped houses because I liked the chunks of cash that came from that. I could take that money and either pay down debt (though I didn’t do that much) or buy as many things as I could that made sense. I tried to mix in a flip here and there with my rental portfolio. That’s how I approached it.

Bryce: It sounds like you were starting to gain some equity, and when you heard more about hard money, you dove right in. But you faced some rejections from banks, which left you in a bit of a limbo. What happened during that time when you were uncertain about whether you could pursue this? How long did that period last, and what were you doing in between?

Owen: Just to clarify, are you asking how long it took from the sit-down meeting with Colin and the others to the point where we actually had a viable business?

Bryce: Let me rephrase that. It sounds like you were interested in hard money and wanted to pursue it, but after speaking to different banks and receiving rejections, there was a lull before your meeting with Colin, right? During that time, were you feeling uncertain about whether you could move forward? Did you give up for a while and put it on hold? What happened during that period?

Owen: I think it was more of the latter. We were interested in exploring this opportunity, but after receiving some quick rejections, we decided to stick with what we were already doing—buying and flipping houses and managing rentals. We kept our options open, thinking we might revisit hard money lending if we found a bank willing to work with us or if we networked with more people. So, we essentially tabled the idea for a bit.

Before we were introduced to the right people—Colin, Chris, and another partner we eventually bought out, plus Brandon—we just couldn’t gain any traction with the banks, so we stopped actively pursuing it. After that impromptu lunch meeting, we finally hit the unpause button.

Bryce: The other thing I wanted to ask is, I know property values are lower than they are here in Idaho, for example. How far did that first million dollars go? Did you have two loans out, or were you able to churn it and do 10 or 12 at a time?

Owen: Well, here’s a quick, funny story about that. Our very first loan was for a million dollars, and it lasted exactly one month—it went really quickly.

We have a good friend we’ve gotten to know through real estate and meetups. I went to BiggerPockets with him; he’s a great guy, and I trust his experience. Our first loan was for a double closing on an apartment complex he was wholesaling. He bought it for $1,000,000 and then turned around and sold it for about $1.2 million. It was supposed to happen on the same day, which is typical for a double closing.

For those unfamiliar, a wholesale transaction traditionally involves getting a property under contract for a certain amount and then assigning that contract to someone else for a fee. In this case, there was an A-to-B transaction for $100,000; the money goes in, and then it’s paid off when the end buyer comes in with the final amount.

We were supposed to get our money back the same day, but things got a bit stressful. All of our own money was at stake in this $1,000,000 loan. Long story short, the end buyer never showed up for closing—he was completely uncontactable. The guy we were working with couldn’t reach him, and we were left wondering what was going on.

There were some panicked moments as we tried to figure out our next steps. Clearly, this wasn’t the ideal way to start our lending experience. Fortunately, the borrower we lent the money to is a solid operator. He called me to explain the situation, and I remember thinking about how I would have to explain all this to my four partners.

I told him, “Dave, I’m confident that you’re going to figure this out,” and I left it at that. About an hour later, he called back, saying he pulled money out of a line of credit to cover the difference between the two loans. We ended up getting paid back, and the wire came in the next day. So it had a happy ending, but there was definitely a lot of stress involved!

Bryce: Yeah, I bet. And I’m sure in your mind, you were thinking, “Okay, please don’t screw me over. Please don’t screw me over.”

Owen: Exactly! So that was loan number one. We were immediately out of money, but it all came back in really quickly, especially with a double closing.

Bryce: Do you remember how much you made on that transaction?

Owen: Yes, I do. I get reminded of it all the time by my partners. We made about $1,500. So for anyone listening to this episode, learn from my mistakes early on: do not do a million-dollar loan to make $1,500. Just don’t do that. It was a lesson learned about double closings, the mechanics involved, and what to charge properly. That was definitely not the right amount.

Bryce: After that, you dove right in. What happened next?

Owen: Here’s the thing—I think there’s a cheat code for hitting the ground running in this business. You need people who are familiar with real estate, whether they’re partners, employees, or consultants. You might think that’s obvious, but when starting a hard money lending business, it’s crucial to understand both lending and the asset class itself. If your background is only in commercial lending or something similar, you may not grasp what’s happening in the single-family housing market or how to find accurate comparable sales in different neighborhoods.

You need people who are familiar with real estate, whether they’re partners, employees, or consultants.

You need to be nimble and have a solid partner or someone in your circle who understands what you’re lending on. Looking back at our business, I can see we did some things right. Our partners were all directly investing in real estate and had a long track record of dozens, maybe even hundreds, of transactions. They understood transactional real estate and various asset classes, not just single-family but also multifamily and land development.

Even more importantly, if you want to grow a hard money lending business, you need to be able to raise capital from private investors, family offices, or institutional investors. Relying solely on your own capital can limit you, especially if you’re in a high cost-of-living area. A million dollars can disappear quickly, and you could do many more deals in a place like Omaha, Nebraska, than in your area.

The key to growth in a hard money lending business is the ability to raise capital from private individuals. That skill is the lifeblood of growth, period.

Bryce: I just wanted to say that I’ve really enjoyed our conversation because this is something we’re struggling with too—constraints on capital. When you mentioned getting a lot of no’s from banks, I resonate with that wholeheartedly. I’ve probably faced a dozen no’s just in the last week. What advice would you give? Considering where you’re at now, if you were getting started again, would you target family offices, friends and family, or look for lines of credit? What’s been your secret sauce for raising capital?

Owen: That’s a great question. There are different ways to build and operate this business. When it comes to raising money, whether from private individuals, Wall Street, family offices, or other sources, the low-hanging fruit is definitely friends and family. If your parents or other family members have been working for a while, they likely have some savings. They might be cautious about the stock market but trust you.

You can approach them by explaining how you plan to invest their money in real estate for a higher return. Essentially, you’re taking their capital, putting it to work, and earning a spread on the interest. In the beginning, this is the easiest way to add available capital to your lending base.

The next step is to establish yourself in the business so you can effectively pitch your story to commercial banks. If you want to secure a line of credit, having financials is crucial. If you approach a commercial lender saying, “I’m starting a hard money lending business this week,” they’ll likely respond with skepticism.

Owen : Where are your financials? What’s your return? You know, the background checks are essential.

So, if we break it down into steps, I’d say step one is definitely friends and family for raising initial capital. Step two is to start exploring the commercial lending space. Despite all the no’s, there are banks out there willing to provide lines of credit that you can utilize for lending.

Then, once you gain more experience in raising capital, you can look into starting a 506(c) syndication and creating a fund. This allows you to pool investor capital, potentially from people you don’t even know. Just a disclaimer: I’m not a CPA or an attorney, so definitely consult a professional for legalities. But essentially, when you start a fund, you can bring in capital from accredited investors, which helps you scale your operation. It’s like moving from being a big fish in a small pond to a smaller fish in a larger pond.

Additionally, there are other options like joint ventures or working with brokers, and you can even explore collateralizing debt with borrower assets that aren’t real estate. There are so many ways to approach this, and if you have smart people around you to brainstorm ideas, that’s a huge advantage.

Also, one thing I wanted to mention is the importance of being an active participant in your local Real Estate Investor Association (RIA). Most towns have one, and if not, starting your own can be beneficial. My partner Colin started the Omaha Real Estate Meetup, which has around 7,000 members. We have monthly meetings with guest speakers and plenty of networking opportunities.

Being involved in your local RIA not only gives you industry knowledge but also helps you connect with key players. You’ll learn who has a good reputation and who you can trust, which is crucial when starting out. This network can give you a leg up over others who might just be starting their hard money lending journey. I know I’ve thrown a lot at you, but these elements have been key to our quick success.

You’ll learn who has a good reputation and who you can trust, which is crucial when starting out.

Those are the key things that can really set you apart from other hard money lending businesses. If I were to advise you, I’d say definitely start engaging with local meetups right from the beginning, even if you don’t have a lot of capital. It’s about building relationships.

When I first started in real estate, I felt intimidated talking to seasoned investors. I thought they wouldn’t want to engage with someone inexperienced. But what I found is that most experienced people, unless they’re not very nice, actually want to help newcomers. They’re willing to offer advice, especially if you’re respectful of their time.

You shouldn’t wait to network, just like you wouldn’t wait to buy real estate until interest rates drop. Time in the market is crucial, and the same goes for building relationships. The earlier you start, the stronger those connections will become.

I’m a big believer in networking. I know it can be uncomfortable, especially at larger events, but my approach has always been to find one or two key people to have meaningful conversations with. Instead of just exchanging business cards and doing the usual small talk, focus on having quality interactions. Be memorable.

To stand out, be curious about others. Ask good questions about their backgrounds and operations. If you show genuine interest in what makes them tick, they’re more likely to remember you. Even if they don’t learn much about you, they’ll appreciate your curiosity and engagement. It’s amazing how that kind of approach can pay off over time.

Bryce : Well, clearly you’ve mastered networking, and it really pays off. One quick thing I was thinking about—I’m not sure where I learned this, but it’s been invaluable. Someone once told me that when you exchange contact information, instead of just saying, “Hey, this is Bryce,” try adding a fun one-liner. For example, you could say, “Hey, this is Bryce, that guy with the weird mustache from the RIA.”

It adds a little humor and makes it memorable. People will remember, “Oh yeah, that dude with the weird mustache.” For some reason, that popped into my head, but it’s served me well over the years!

Bryce: Yeah, you’re good. Just give me a paycheck, and I’m set.

Another interesting thing I realized before I became a lender is that I assumed I’d find a few whale investors bringing in seven figures each. Before we got into lending, we did about 75 fix-and-flips, so we were familiar with borrowing from hard money lenders but less informed about what happened behind the scenes. However, that’s not how it turned out. I recently spoke with a woman who runs a $50 million fund, and when I asked how she raised capital, she said it was $100,000 at a time. I found that really interesting. She mentioned amounts like $50,000, $25,000, and $100,000 here and there. They’ve been very successful, but it shifted my perspective. I had been thinking that securing one, two, or even $3 million from a single investor would be ideal, but that hasn’t been my experience. I wonder if it’s similar for you.

Owen: I 100% agree with you.

And I’ve had similar experiences. We do have investors with larger chunks of capital—like a million or two—who need to park their money temporarily to avoid losing the time value of money by keeping it in low-interest accounts. They’ll ask, “What kind of return can I get if I park this for a year?” Depending on the amount and our business model, we can offer them a solid return in the lending space, and many appreciate that.

However, we definitely see more $100,000 investors than larger ones, but it all adds up. The cumulative effect over time is staggering. Our business has doubled every year since we started in 2020, and the growth has been incredible.

I also want to mention something I overlooked earlier about partners and the foundation of a successful hard money lending business. Two of my partners, Colin and Chris, own a syndication business and are very experienced in raising capital. They typically work with multifamily operators, raising money from investors for those deals, then managing the assets, refinancing, or holding them. Having partners with that background makes it much easier to raise capital since they’re already active in that space.

Bryce: They’re already in the weeds.

Owen: Yeah, it gives people a better option than just asking, “Do you want to invest in this?” Instead, it’s more effective to present choices like, “Would you rather invest in this or our hard money fund?” You can lay out the pros and cons, the duration your money will be tied up, and the projected returns. Offering choices—A, B, or C—makes it much more appealing than a simple yes or no.

Having partners, or even being experienced in raising private capital, can lead to quicker growth in a hard money lending business compared to someone just starting out without a solid real estate background.

If you look at everything we’ve discussed, I think everyone should do a personal inventory of their skills and experiences. Be brutally honest with yourself. Create a list of what you bring to the table: maybe five years in real estate, a network of investors, or a wealthy uncle interested in investing. Identify gaps in your knowledge or experience that need to be filled, either through hiring people or self-education.

Partnering can be the fastest way to grow because you can’t do everything on your own. If you start a hard money lending business, you’ll need to find borrowers, vet deals, run comps, manage paperwork, and raise money. Trying to handle all these tasks alone can be overwhelming.

Bryce: Yeah, it’s much more than just underwriting a deal and wiring funds. Having a strong real estate background is almost essential. If you haven’t been flipping houses or analyzing comps daily like we have, you won’t have the intuition to quickly assess a deal. It’s critical, especially since you have your own capital and investor funds at stake.

Owen: Exactly. When someone brings a hard money loan request, you have to assess the underwriting thoroughly. If it doesn’t make sense and you wouldn’t fund it, then they probably shouldn’t either.

Bryce: You know it’s not a good deal.

Owen: We’re underwriting as if we’re the ones buying the property. If we believe there’s a high likelihood of success based on the business plan for that asset or loan, then we’ll proceed. Otherwise, it’s clear that many miss critical details. For instance, when we see a rehab budget that claims a complete house remodel for $25,000—including kitchens, multiple bathrooms, siding, windows, doors, and the roof—we know that’s unrealistic.

In the hard money space, you have various stakeholders: the owners, the investors, the bank, and the borrowers. If you educate and support your borrowers rather than treating them purely as a source of profit—like adopting a “loan to own” mentality—you’re missing the mark. Treat your borrower base as an asset. When you explain why you didn’t approve a deal, you build respect and trust.

Treat your borrower base as an asset. When you explain why you didn’t approve a deal, you build respect and trust.

Sure, they might go to another lending company and get burned, but when they do, they’ll remember you as the one who had their best interests in mind. It’s all about credibility. Treat all your stakeholders well and manage investor money as if it’s your own, and you’ll build a strong reputation.

Bryce: Exactly! It’s a great business model when the interests of your investors and borrowers align. Everyone benefits. If your borrowers lose money, you likely will too, and your reputation is at stake. Nobody wants to run a business where borrowers leave with a bad taste.

Our lender saved us on three or four deals simply by advising us against certain choices. We walked away, knowing we saved money in the long run. So, I completely agree!

Owen: To wrap up that thought, there’s a significant difference in relationships. When dealing with banks, you often encounter an adversarial dynamic. They’re supposed to give you loans, but you’ll face numerous hoops to jump through, making the process feel painful and often not worth it.

In contrast, in a collaborative relationship, if your borrower wins, you win. And if you win, your investors win, creating a four-way win, including any banks involved. With banks, it tends to be more of a zero-sum game, where it feels like one side wins while the other loses.

Bryce: I love that perspective. Are you comfortable sharing some numbers about your fund, like average fund size, deal size, and revenue? I think that would be really valuable for listeners.

Owen: Yeah, we can discuss that.

Bryce: I’d love to know your average fund size, average deal size, and rough profits on individual loans, if you don’t mind sharing. I think that would be really valuable.

Owen: To give you an idea of our revenue growth, we started in September 2020 and have done about 450 loans since then. We began with a million-dollar capital stack and have grown to roughly 24 million now. We’ve incrementally raised money from investors and secured a line of credit with a commercial bank for about 6 million.

Lines of credit are beneficial because they allow us to leverage investor money. For instance, if we have 24 million in total capital and 6 million is a line of credit, that means we only pay interest on the 18 million from investors. If we don’t have that 6 million loaned out, we’re not incurring interest costs, which is a huge advantage.

While raising capital from friends, family, and accredited investors is crucial, pairing that with a solid line of credit makes a significant difference. Our business is unique, and we operate with just one employee who pulls comps for loan requests. She’s experienced and helps ensure we have accurate after-repair values, which is essential for assessing loan viability.

In the early days, I wore many hats, handling day-to-day operations and borrower interactions. Now, I focus less on the paperwork and details, which has made the work more enjoyable. I hope that gives you a clearer picture!

Bryce: No, that’s beautiful. How many outstanding loans do you typically have at any one time? I know you said you try to stick around $18 million, but what does that look like in terms of individual loans?

Owen: Yeah, I mean, with what we need out to ensure all the investor capital is covered, it’s about $18 million. But we typically run out of money more often than we have money sitting. It’s a good problem to have, I realize, but we often find ourselves loaned out. Then a big loan will pay off, and you’re like, “Oh crap, what are we going to do?” It’s always that fine balance of available capital versus good loans to invest in. Sorry, what was your question again?

Bryce: No, that was great. I was just asking how many loans that roughly translates to—like 60, 40?

Owen: We typically have between 70 to 80 loans at our current capital stack. Some of those are larger loans, so over a million. But a lot of our bread and butter comes from finding reliable operators who run consistent flipping or rental purchase and rehab refinance companies. If you can find borrowers doing steady work—maybe a couple of deals a month or more—that’s ideal. We have different groups in cities like Des Moines, Kansas City, and Omaha, where we’ve found good operators. We don’t have to underwrite every deal with a microscope because they have a track record. They’ve done multiple deals with us, and we know we can typically trust them, but we always validate.

Bryce: Working with a repeat borrower is so much easier and nicer. There’s so much less paperwork and vetting, and the due diligence required is significantly reduced. That alone lifts a lot of the weight and headache off your shoulders.

Owen: I 100% could not agree more.

I view this almost like a subscription model. You know how gym memberships work—90% of people who sign up never go back or only return once. It’s a ridiculous stat.

For me, really good borrowers who are solid operators and do a lot of volume resemble this model. Your job as a hard money lending business owner is to ensure they’re happy and that the relationship is strong. Lending can be a commodity, but this is very much a relationship business. If you enjoy working with a borrower, there will always be someone trying to undercut you. That’s why you need to go above and beyond with customer service.

Make sure you have face time with these borrowers, even if they’re in another market. For instance, we’ll travel to Des Moines, Iowa, which is a couple of hours away, or Kansas City, Missouri, which is about three hours away. We make sure to listen to our borrowers and pay attention to their needs. When they feel heard, they’re more likely to remain loyal, even if your interest rates are slightly higher.

I see this loyalty as a subscription-type setup for your business—it’s recurring revenue. The more people you find like that, the easier it is as a lender. While it’s fun to loan to new borrowers—those excited individuals who just read Rich Dad Poor Dad and are eager to scale up—it’s not sustainable to build a business on first-time borrowers alone. You need steady operators who will continuously provide loan requests each month, and you have to nurture those relationships.

I recommend sprinkling in some newbie loans while being more careful in underwriting those. Once you have your footing in the business and are doing larger loans, it can get exciting. You can start networking with brokers and attorneys. Our attorney, for example, brings us many potential loans that we might typically pass on. But we’ve done some significant loans—like a couple million bucks—that we would have initially dismissed after thorough research.

When you look at this business, depending on how big you want to grow, I highly recommend having a solid attorney on your side—not just for SEC matters but for day-to-day business issues. An attorney can help with documents and legalities in different markets since every state has different regulations. You also need a great CPA, but not just any CPA who does tax prep. You need someone who’s truly skilled.

When you look at this business, depending on how big you want to grow, I highly recommend having a solid attorney on your side—not just for SEC matters but for day-to-day business issues.

Bryce: Someone who’s well-versed in lending, yeah.

Owen: You need somebody who’s really good at forecasting—someone who can identify trends in your business, as well as gaps in what you’re doing well and what you’re not. I think having someone who helps with not just the preparation but also the strategy and overall strategic planning of your business is invaluable. You also need someone to handle the day-to-day operations. Those core elements are crucial.

Bryce: Ah, amazing. I have about 10,000 additional questions I want to ask you. This has been so good, but where can people find you?

I want people to be able to reach out to you, whether that’s for getting a loan as a borrower, tips on lending, or listening to your own podcast where you discuss a lot of this. So where can people get ahold of you?

Owen: I co-host a podcast with Ted Koch, who owns the Omaha RIA and all the RIAs in Nebraska. He has put together a fantastic group. If you’re local to me, which most of you probably aren’t, they have a fantastic monthly meetup there. We have a weekly podcast called REIA Radio. That’s R-E-I-A, like Real Estate Investor Association. You can find us at riaradio.com or on any of the major platforms like Spotify, Audible, etc.

I’m also pretty active on social media. My Instagram handle is @owenmoneyrealestate, all one word. You can reach out to me there. My email address is [email protected]. I’d be happy to connect, whether you want to learn more about our hard money lending business or just network and get to know each other.

LinkedIn is another good place to find me; my profile is under Owen Dashner. That’s where to find me.

Bryce: I don’t want to have your phone blow up, but Owen’s always a great resource. He’s usually happy to take a call or just chat. So hopefully that’s okay. Owen’s great.

Connect with Owen:

• Podcast: REIA Radio (riaradio.com)
• Instagram: @owenmoneyrealestate
• Email: [email protected]
• LinkedIn: Owen Dashner