Article

Gasoline for Your Deal Flow – Shane Powers on Turbo-Charging Hard-Money Leads

Bryce
Today we are greeted by the presence of Mr. Shane Powers.

How are you doing, Shane?

Shane
Good. Great to be here.

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Bryce
Thanks for being here with us.

So, let me just preface this a little bit—I’m really stoked for this episode. It’s going to be one of those conversations where, by the end, you’re probably going to need to take some ibuprofen. Not because it’s painful, but because of the sheer information overload. Shane is a wealth of knowledge, a treasure trove of insight.

I know this firsthand because I recently attended the Hard Money Mastermind a couple of weeks ago. Shane gave a presentation that left me with a legitimate headache—not in a bad way, but in the “wow, there’s a lot to digest” kind of way. I didn’t fully comprehend everything at the time, but I absolutely saw the value in it.

So first and foremost, Shane, introduce yourself. Walk us through your background—from working at Guitar Center to where you are now. After that, I definitely want to dive into some of the topics you covered in the mastermind because I think that info will be super valuable for our listeners.

Shane
Yeah, absolutely.

I was a marketing consultant for about a decade, working independently with a wide variety of clients across different industries. Then, in 2021, I got recruited to join the e-commerce team at Guitar Center. Initially, I was hired as an SEO manager—search engine optimization—but things moved quickly. Within a short time, I was managing a team and handling both paid and organic social media campaigns.

Eventually, I became the acting Director of E-commerce for their Music & Arts brand and their Woodwind & Brasswind division. I managed a team of marketers, including people with deep musical expertise who really understood individual instruments. My team also included paid search specialists and merchandisers.

During that time, I managed over $5 million per year in paid search budget. The company had two main headquarters—one in Westlake Village near Hollywood, and another in Frederick, Maryland. I worked closely with some really sharp SEO professionals based out of LA.

I’ve been a musician for a long time, so the blend of creative and data-driven work—like paid search—was a natural fit. After a couple of years, I transitioned to a solar company, where I managed around $1 million in ad spend. That generated roughly $10 million in net revenue over two years.

Now, I’m out on my own, helping hard money lenders generate leads and drive more traffic to their websites.

Bryce
I was going to ask—how did that transition happen? From Guitar Center, working with instruments, to solar… and then to hard money? That’s quite a jump. And let’s be honest—hard money isn’t the sexiest topic. It’s not like people wake up saying, “You know what? I want to run a marketing agency for hard money lenders.” So, what sparked that pivot?

Shane
Yeah, really, it all started with the Hard Money Bankers guys.

I’ve known Chris and Jason for a while. Their company is actually headquartered in my hometown—Columbia, Maryland. I crossed paths with them through an agency I was working with back in 2016 or 2017. At that time, a coworker of mine left the agency to work for the Ed Reed Foundation. Their friend Glenn is the executive director of that foundation and has worked closely with Ed Reed for years.

That former coworker started messaging me, asking for help setting up Facebook ad campaigns. Before long, it escalated to, “Hey, can you come have lunch with my boss?” I met Glenn, we hit it off, and he immediately said, “You need to meet Chris and Jason.”

A day later, I was in their office. Turns out, Chris and I had a ton of mutual friends. He was actually college roommates with guys I grew up with. We had all these connections, but somehow had never crossed paths until then. Just a week later, I was doing freelance work for Glenn and starting to support Chris and Jason with their podcast, ads, and other projects.

So, when I left Guitar Center, a friend of mine became Head of Operations for a solar company. They were looking for someone with my exact skill set. After we talked, I realized their needs were very similar to what I’d done before—mainly, generating more leads. Like hard money lenders, solar companies often buy leads from third parties. These leads get resold to multiple companies, who then scramble to close the deal first.

Instead of continuing with that inefficient model, they wanted someone in-house who could take charge. Their setup was already strong—they had a call center, real-time lead follow-ups, everything integrated with Salesforce, and well-established systems.

So I jumped in and essentially added fuel to the fire. We amplified what was already working.

So I jumped in and essentially added fuel to the fire. We amplified what was already working.

The entire time I was at Guitar Center and the solar company, I stayed in touch with Chris and Jason. We kept talking about the mastermind events. We noticed a pattern: a lot of people in that space had grown their businesses purely through word of mouth or networking. Many didn’t even have a website—or if they did, it wasn’t updated regularly and wasn’t optimized to drive traffic.

Eventually, we asked the question—what if I came to one of these masterminds and shared what I know? That led to me speaking at the Charleston event.

Bryce
Great. The reason I wanted to have you on here is because I think the majority of our listeners are in a very, very similar situation. The hard money lending business, as you know, is extremely heavy on lead generation—whether it’s for new loans, new borrowers, or raising investor capital.

It’s kind of like this teeter-totter seesaw—you have to keep everything balanced. If not, you either end up with too much capital and not enough loans, or too many loan requests and not enough capital to fund them.

So, let’s start from the very beginning. Let’s say someone listening doesn’t even have a website. They’ve got a couple million bucks in capital, meaning they could realistically fund four, five, maybe six loans depending on their market. What’s the first thing you’d recommend they do?

Shane
It starts with a website.

I’ve talked to quite a few lenders who either don’t have a site or haven’t updated theirs in years. Honestly, I think that’s pretty normal if you’re out there hustling—attending meetups and getting business through personal connections. In that scenario, you don’t need a site to operate effectively. But eventually, as you grow, you have to find a way to replicate those offline interactions in a digital environment.

If someone has $1 million and can fund a few loans a year, I’d suggest launching a simple funnel-style landing page. Even if it’s just one page, it should clearly state who you are, the areas you lend in, and include a contact form—at a bare minimum.

If it were my business, I’d also be experimenting on social media—trying to build a following, similar to how you use reels. That’s a great starting point. There are definitely people out there who’ve scaled from $1 million to $5 million in capital with nothing more than a single-page site and a solid social presence.

If it were my business, I’d also be experimenting on social media—trying to build a following

That intake form could be as basic as name, phone, email, and a short message—with you following up immediately. Or it could be a more comprehensive loan application you refer people to when you’re in a conversation with them.

Interestingly, the digital landscape is always shifting. Google, Facebook, TikTok—they all operate on constantly evolving algorithms. So, what works today might not work tomorrow.

One of the biggest changes in search right now is what’s called zero-click search. That’s when someone types a query into Google, and the platform displays the answer directly in the search results. The user never even clicks through to a website.

Bryce
You’re talking specifically about the AI summary from Gemini, right?

Shane
Correct. But even before that, it was the Knowledge Panel.

For example, if you searched, “What’s the score of the Eagles game?” Google would show the result right in the search results. No need to go to NFL.com. They’ve been chipping away at traffic to third-party sites with this model for a while now—especially for informational searches.

But AI is pushing this even further. Not to get too far ahead of ourselves, but there’s a guy I follow named Michael King—super sharp in the SEO world. He just published an article about something Google announced a few days ago called AI Mode.

At Google’s annual event, they revealed what’s coming in the next iteration of search. A lot of SEOs are very nervous about the impact AI Mode could have on how websites are discovered.

Now, a lot of what we’ll discuss today could be outdated in 6 to 12 months just because of how fast all this is moving. Still, many of the principles behind helping Google index your site—understanding your business, who you serve, and where—are the same principles that influence AI-generated search results.

But the concern now is: will AI just synthesize your content and display it, maybe cite you, but not send users to your site? That’s the fear. If no one clicks through, your web traffic could take a hit—even though your content is being used.

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This is what’s likely to disrupt the search landscape significantly over the next 24 months.

So, there’s a lot of debate over what comes next. In these moments, I turn to voices like Michael King and Rand Fishkin—the founder of Moz. Rand now runs an audience research tool (the name escapes me at the moment). These guys have been in the game a long time and can critically evaluate complex issues in this space.

All of this reinforces the reality: what you’re doing today may simply not be effective tomorrow.

All of this reinforces the reality: what you’re doing today may simply not be effective tomorrow.

Bryce
If I had to venture a guess—and feel free to call me out in 12 or 24 months if I’m wrong—I’d say local SEO will remain relatively stable in the short term. And when I say “local SEO,” I mean building your website to target something like “Omaha, Nebraska hard money loans.”

Compared to the AI-generated answers or the Knowledge Panel, I think local SEO will stay somewhat insulated, at least for now. That’s just my personal “pie in the sky” theory.

Shane
I agree. And here’s why.

One thing we’re seeing with local Google businesses—which used to be called “Google My Business,” now known as Google Business Profile—is continued emphasis on map pack results in local search.

At Guitar Center, we dealt with this at scale. We managed store locations all across the U.S., and had to use various tools and agencies to maintain those listings properly.

For the most part, the map pack and local search features continue to be a reliable way to drive visibility…

Bryce
Real quick—can you explain what you mean by map pack?

Shane
So, the Google result I’m referring to is typically a group of three listings—it includes the business name, reviews, and clickable buttons for calling the business or visiting their website. This shows up when the search intent is local. If someone types in “hard money lender in Omaha, Nebraska,” for instance, Google recognizes that as a local query.

In that case, it prioritizes businesses that match that local intent. For a long time, people would try to game this system—creating fake business listings to rank in local results and generate phone calls for clients. Google’s been fighting that for years.

More recently—though I’m not sure of the exact timeline—they started requiring businesses to have a physical commercial location to get verified. You now have to record a video that can’t be edited. You literally walk into your office, show your logo on the door, and verify your setup. That video serves as proof to Google that you’re a legitimate business.

This has led to some interesting conversations I’ve had in just the last two or three weeks. If a lender wants to rank locally but doesn’t have an office, and they can afford to—they should get one.

When I say “afford to,” here’s what I mean: let’s say you make around $10,000 per loan. It’s a no-brainer to have a commercial office space and invest in your Google Business Profile. Why? Because the return in calls, website traffic, and local visibility likely 10X’s the cost. The investment more than pays for itself.

… let’s say you make around $10,000 per loan. It’s a no-brainer to have a commercial office space and invest in your Google Business Profile

Bryce
It’s funny you say that, because I’ve actually done the exact same thing. You and I talked about this a while ago.

I still rent a small office space for $250 a month. I went on Etsy, had my logo cut in vinyl, and stuck it on the door. Then, to get verified, you literally take out your phone, press record, and follow Google’s steps.

They want to see the cross streets, so you walk outside and film the street sign—something like “Main and Hughes.” Then you pan to show your signage, walk inside, show your desk, paperwork, and even your loan origination system on your computer. You basically have to prove, on camera, that your business is 100% legit.

And like you said, spending $250 a month to potentially make $10,000 in profit? That’s a total no-brainer. But yes, it’s definitely a big mental and operational shift from how things used to work.

Shane
Totally. You nailed it.

I’ve been closely following Google’s updates for the last 15–16 years, especially anything tied to SEO. This new verification process tells me they’re intentionally creating a barrier to entry for local listings.

If you can meet that bar and get verified, it means your competition now has to meet it too. That alone suggests this method is likely to stick around for at least the next 12 to 24 months.

For local intent searches, Google seems to believe that featuring verified businesses—those with reviews, addresses, contact info—is the best experience for the user. And generally speaking, Google leans heavily toward improving user experience, particularly in cases like this.

Now, in the back of my mind, I’m still wondering how things like AI mode will affect local queries down the road. Truthfully? I don’t know yet.

Bryce
So when you mention local SEO, my mind goes in a couple of directions.

I definitely think of the Google Business Profile, but I also think about your broader web presence—your actual website.

What can listeners do to improve their local SEO right now? Back in the day, people gamed the system. They’d stuff keywords like “hard money lender” into their site using transparent text—literally hiding it across the page background. It worked because Google would count 2,000 invisible mentions of “hard money lender” on your site.

Obviously, things have changed. Google’s way smarter now.

But in today’s context—web-wise—what should people be doing to improve local SEO?

Shane
If most of the people we’re talking to typically lend in just one area—let’s use Maryland as an example—you’re mostly targeting markets like Baltimore and D.C. There are tons of searches for terms like “Maryland hard money lenders” or “fix and flip loans in Maryland.” What we usually do is start with paid search campaigns to test those exact-match keywords. If someone isn’t spending on ads, there are still other ways to gather insight.

So, we begin by targeting those key phrases to test whether they convert, what the clicks cost, and what we believe the searcher is trying to do—read reviews, submit a form, or something else. Then, we create a landing page following best practices. It should answer the most common questions borrowers have: What are your loan terms? What’s the interest rate? How many points? Are there deals you won’t fund? Do you lend in every county?

… begin by targeting those key phrases to test whether they convert, what the clicks cost, and what we believe the searcher is trying to do

On a Maryland-specific page, we’ll include info on bridge loans, construction loans, and fix and flips. The message is always centered around: “If you’re looking for a hard money loan in Maryland, here’s what you need to know.” That content should either answer their question or drive them to take action—like filling out a form or submitting a loan application.

If you’re relying on SEO alone, it may take a month or two to rank—depending on your website’s authority and backlink profile. But if you have even $100 to test, you could pay for 10–12 clicks and collect useful data fast. Then, pause the ads and use what you learned to build content that matches those queries.

Bryce
It’s genius. When you break it down like that, a lot of people just build something and throw it into the ether, hoping it’ll work.

But the truth is, Google is incentivized to show searchers the most relevant result. So instead of focusing on what you want to say, you’ve got to flip the script: focus on what they’re searching for. If you’re the most relevant answer, you’ll win.

Now, while I’m thinking about it, talk to me a bit about Google Search Console. I feel like many people believe, “If we build it, they will come.” And that’s just not true.

Yes, you can build a website, and yes, eventually Google may discover it—but that process is slow. There’s a way to speed up the indexing, and that’s through Search Console. So for those unfamiliar, what is it? How do you get listed and ranked? What tools are in there? Give us everything.

Shane
That’s one of the first steps I take with any client.

Let’s start here: Google Search Console is a free tool that helps you verify your website. You typically do that by placing a code snippet in your site or updating your DNS settings in your hosting account. Once verified, Google starts tracking your site’s performance in search.

The data only goes back about 18 months, so if you haven’t set it up yet, you’re missing that historical view. After it’s live, you can submit a sitemap to tell Google, “Here are all our pages—please crawl them.”

If a page isn’t being indexed, the Console dashboard will let you know. You can fix the issue, then request a re-index. That’s already a huge advantage.

The feature I find most powerful is the Search Performance section. It shows you every search query that’s generating impressions for your pages.

The feature I find most powerful is the Search Performance section.

Bryce
And just to clarify—what exactly is an impression? Let’s break that down for those who aren’t as familiar with the terminology.

Shane
Sure. An impression means your page was shown in the search results when someone typed in a query.

So, if someone searches “Maryland hard money loan” and your page appears—even if it’s result number 92—that still counts as an impression. No one needs to click for it to register.

SEO is about analyzing those impressions. You ask: “What’s this page showing up for?” “Are people clicking?” “If not, how can we improve it?” With local terms, if a page has low click-through rates, but it’s a local query and your Google Business Profile is showing up in the map pack, that’s actually okay. The map pack dominates user attention for local searches.

If your page is getting relevant impressions, that means Google understands your page and thinks it’s related to the query. That’s already a win.

Then, the next step is figuring out how to earn the click—maybe you tweak the title tag, or update your meta description to be more compelling.

Bryce
That makes sense. Even if the page isn’t getting clicks, it’s still getting noticed. That’s a sign of relevance.

Shane
Exactly. And in that case, we’re also making sure our Google Business Profile is optimized for that term. We’re likely running paid ads targeted to that exact query too.

If the user does click, we’re driving them to a conversion-optimized landing page with a clear next step—usually a loan application.

If the user does click, we’re driving them to a conversion-optimized landing page with a clear next step—usually a loan application.

One of the reasons I love search is that it reaches people at the bottom of the funnel. These people already know they want a hard money loan. You don’t have to persuade them. They’re actively searching for what you do.

Hard or Private Lender? Manage all your loans with ease.

Lendr allows you to manage your entire lending business from one place.

So, if the keyword isn’t too competitive, search tends to yield the highest ROI in both ad spend and time invested.

Now back to Search Console—you can also spot keyword gaps. Let’s say your page ranks for “Maryland fix and flip” but you don’t actually have a page built around that phrase. If the volume is there and your current content doesn’t answer it well enough, that’s your cue to build a new page specifically for that term.

From there, you start thinking in clusters. Link your “fix and flip” page to your “bridge loan” page, link those to a general “Maryland hard money loan” page. It creates a web of context that Google can crawl and understand.

So the idea is to help Google clearly define:

  • What your business does
  • Where you operate
  • What your customers are saying
  • And how your services interconnect

It can feel overwhelming when you’re just starting. But really, it’s just digitizing what you already do at a meetup. That same hustle that got you from $1 million to $5 million? You’re just replicating it online—in a smarter, scalable way.

Bryce
So, basically to summarize, and correct me if I’m wrong—I’d say:

  1. If you don’t have a website, build one.
  2. Make sure your pages are hyper-specific to target local results.
  3. Then, upload or verify your website in Google Search Console to signal that you’re focused on hard money loans in Boise, Idaho, Nebraska, or wherever you operate.

That’s Marketing/Local SEO 101.

Now let’s jump into the 201 level. Let’s talk about paid traffic. Say we’ve got our website and everything is squared away. We still need to generate a higher volume of leads by pushing people to that site.

Let’s say I’m a total newbie—I know nothing about paid ads or paid search. Now what?

Shane
My first piece of advice? Treat everything Google tells you with a healthy level of skepticism.

Treat everything Google tells you with a healthy level of skepticism.

Bryce
Alright—broad match versus phrase match versus exact match. Break that down.

Shane
That’s where I’d start, haha. In the past, exact match gave you tight control. For example, you could target searches like “Maryland hard money loans”.

However, Google has pushed things toward broad match, claiming it improves performance. But in reality, for most small businesses, it often leads to bad results.

When Google expands your targeting, you start showing up for things like payday loans or crowdfunded personal loans. This happened to the Hard Money Bankers guys not long ago. They were getting flooded with spam clicks and irrelevant leads.

So we pulled back. We scaled the campaigns down and focused only on highly relevant keywords, like:

  • hard money lender
  • fix and flip loan
  • construction loan
  • bridge loan

Then, for locations with enough search traffic, we built exact match ad groups like: “Maryland hard money loan” or “Maryland fix and flip.”

We ONLY targeted those exact phrases.

Bryce
That’s so important to understand. Google is incentivized to spend your money.

Inside the Google Ads dashboard, there’s this “Recommendations” tab. It’s a grid of 25+ things like “Add this” or “Turn on that.” Newbies often think, “Well, Google says I should do this, so I should.”

But if you follow all those suggestions? You’ll end up spending $10,000/month and getting garbage leads.

Here’s another gotcha I ran into. At the campaign level, Google defaults back to broad match—even if you enter keywords correctly. You must physically go in and turn it off.

I was putting in exact match keywords like “hard money loans in Idaho,” but the system reverted back to broad match by default. So just be cautious.

Shane
Even experienced users fall into that trap.

Chris from Hard Money Bankers had run Google Ads for years. Then he got calls from Google reps suggesting “optimizations.” They told him to turn on new settings.

He did. What happened?

Everything shifted to broad match. The lead quality dropped, spam submissions spiked, and a working campaign turned into a mess—all because he tried to raise his optimization score.

Everything shifted to broad match. The lead quality dropped, spam submissions spiked, and a working campaign turned into a mess

For context, some of my best-performing accounts have optimization scores of 43%, 67%, maybe 80% tops. Google reps—often overseas partners—email me daily asking me to turn on broad match.

I always respond, “No thanks, I won’t turn that on.” They rarely follow up.

Bryce
Same here. And another thing I noticed—let’s talk about Display Networks.

These are Google ads that show up on other websites. Sounds good, right? But in practice, it’s another way for Google to spend your money on low-quality traffic.

There’s also a similar setting—I forget the exact name—that places your ads on random sidebars or banners. In my experience, they just don’t convert.

Shane
Totally agree—with one exception I’ll mention.

Back when I worked with a solar company, they had an in-house PPC guy. We were trying to keep cost per lead under $40, even though a quality solar lead realistically cost around $150–$200.

So what did Google do? Since it couldn’t hit the $40 target via search, it started pushing our ads into Display Network. That filled the funnel with junk.

Leads weren’t real. The engagement time was under a second—people weren’t even waiting for the page to load. It was obviously low-intent traffic.

We shut all of that off and focused only on exact-match, relevant keywords. Then we measured cost-per-click, monitored user behavior, and used tools like Hotjar to track what users were doing.

If they hovered halfway down the page? We moved important elements up the page. Over time, we refined the experience.

And since then, I’ve almost never turned Display Network back on—maybe just for very specific retargeting campaigns. But 99% of the time, I leave it off.

Bryce
It’s a good point. I’ve had enough exposure and experience with the Google Ads platform that I probably know a bit more than the average person. But in my experience, it really comes down to starting small.

Let’s gather data, test things out, and then expand—rather than taking this “guns blazing” approach where you throw a bunch of money at it. Google will absolutely spend your money. If you let them, they’ll take all of it—and show no mercy.

There’s just so much inside the Google Ads platform. I wouldn’t say it’s cumbersome, but it’s certainly packed with settings. If you don’t know what you’re doing, you can end up wasting a lot of money very quickly.

If you don’t know what you’re doing, you can end up wasting a lot of money very quickly.

For example, most people completely overlook the negative keyword list. Let’s say your ad accidentally shows up in search results for payday loans, even though you don’t offer them.

You can go in and add “payday loans” as a negative keyword, which tells Google: “If this search term ever comes up again, do NOT show my ad.” This keeps your spend focused only on qualified traffic.

There’s a lot of nuance here. So, Shane, I want to be respectful of your time. I don’t want this to drag on forever—but I do want you to pitch your services.

Honestly, Google Ads can be intimidating. If you don’t know what you’re doing, it’s very easy to waste money. That’s why I see huge value in partnering with someone who knows this stuff inside and out.

And even more specifically, Shane works exclusively with hard money lenders. He’s not running ads for beauty products, cosmetics, or landscapers. This is his niche.

So with that said—Shane, if people want to reach you, what’s the best way? What do you offer? Are there different tiers? Sell us your stuff.

Hard or Private Lender? Manage all your loans with ease.

Lendr allows you to manage your entire lending business from one place.

Shane
Yeah, absolutely. This is actually a relatively new business. I set up the entity about a month ago, kind of aligned with the Charleston move.

Before I pitch, let me quickly tie back to something you mentioned—negative keywords. One of the biggest mistakes I see is not tracking conversions properly and failing to feed that data back into Google.

Think of it this way: Google is an algorithm-driven platform. If we get someone to submit a loan app with Hard Money Bankers, that’s the action we want to measure.

So, we set up systems to track that exact event and send those signals back to Google. This way, Google learns who we want as borrowers—and adjusts accordingly.

With that context in mind, my company is powerscapitalmarketing.com.

I’m just getting started, but I’m working on reselling Go High Level subscriptions. It’s a CRM and landing page platform—some people know it, some don’t. I’m using it because it allows offline conversion tracking right out of the box.

You can embed a few snippets of code, and every submission sends data back to Google. That significantly increases your odds of making your ad spend profitable.

My approach is simple: I don’t start with brand refreshes or full website rebuilds. Instead, I ask, “What assets do you already have?” Then I build systems to drive highly relevant clicks and conversions based on that.

If we land a strong borrower, that could mean multiple loans over time. That’s a high lifetime value, which makes your return on ad spend compelling.

If we land a strong borrower, that could mean multiple loans over time. That’s a high lifetime value, which makes your return on ad spend compelling.

This was the same mindset we used at Guitar Center, where we aimed to turn $1 of ad spend into $7–$9 in ecommerce sales.

Same with the solar company—our goal was a 10x return. Spend $1, get $10 back. I carry that thinking into paid search.

If there’s low-hanging fruit, we go grab it—fast. That’s how I help clients get returns quickly and consistently.

Now, I haven’t done this yet, but it’s coming. Many lenders I work with are starting to think about raising capital because they’re closing more deals.

With Hard Money Bankers, we’ve done similar things—though not direct capital raising, more like targeted Facebook campaigns. We run ads to people based on their interests and behaviors, give them a compelling offer, and drive them to a landing page.

Once they convert, they enter HMB’s sales pipeline. Then Dave or someone on the team gives them a call to close the deal.

So I balance both:

  • Paid search and local SEO to capture intent
  • Demand gen on platforms like Facebook to drive new interest

Right now, I’ve got 3–4 clients and I’m looking to grow. I even brought in a couple of former Guitar Center teammates—they’re freelancing nights and weekends to help out.

Hopefully, I’ll have them working for me full time soon.

Bryce
I love it. Shane, seriously—thank you so much.

To everyone listening: if you need help with marketing, Shane is your guy. Every single time I talk to him, I learn something new.

When I first met Shane, I walked out of the room with a headache—and honestly, that’s a great thing. It just proves how deep his expertise runs.

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